Suicide – a Tragic Outcome
Ranjana Patel RIP
London 1993: Ranjana was a strong, alive, creative spirit from Gujerat. She was a ‘surrendered’ sister – to newcomers she was one of the inner sanctum, part of the establishment. Ranjana had been “in gyan” (knowing the Truth) for about 7 years.
Ranjana was a young woman. She fell in love with one of the other members. However one of the main tenets of the Brahma Kumaris is celibacy and she and he broke that vow. She was devastated by a profound sense of guilt and failure, the wanton loss of her eternal fortune, and now to spend eternity among the lower castes. This, because she had fallen in love.
Ranjana was so devastated by her feelings of guilt and loss she jumped off a four story building. Unbelievably she survived, although sustaining significant injury. Later she disappeared. Someone randomly identified a photo of her in a local paper. It was a mortuary photograph of an unidentified body that had been lying on a cold slab for three months unasked for. This time she had succeeded by jumping off a five story building.
The Brahma Kumaris teach that making love is like throwing oneself off the 5th floor of a building and that was exactly what Ranjana did. And she was right, nobody cared. Not even the BKWSU Seniors with whom she had lived and worked for years, the very people who had preached to her about love and kindness, and enlightenment and service.
BKWSU’s management were so indifferent to Ranjana’s death that no effort was made to ensure that others of their membership did not suffer so badly. Shockingly and incomprehensibly Ranjana’s brother Sharad threw himself under a train a few years later. He was a member for many years but always believed himself not good enough – not pure enough, not yogi enough – the stress of the unreasonable expectations that had been imposed on him by the teachings of the Brahma Kumaris had killed him.
The BKWSU have no duty of care policy or exit strategy. After 70 years of enculting genuine, well-intended and intelligent people they have devastated thousands of lives whilst preaching the same spiritual rhetoric that killed Ranjana and Sharad and many others.
Our reason for being here is to attempt to persuade the management of the Brahma Kumaris to introduce an effective duty of care policy and exit strategy to transition and help existing and departing members. Their official line, in keeping with the Founders’ teachings, is that anyone who leaves is a traitor and should be treated accordingly. Thus far we have been ignored, as were Ranjana and Sharad.
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By happy74, November 15, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
I really did want to ask – what happened to the brother who Ranjana fell in love with, and left the organisation to be with? Why is he not more responsible than the organisation in this case? How could he possibly not take care of her when she needed him most, and was clearly suicidal? That must have been an even worse tragedy for her. what about her family and brother – why were they not responsible enough to take care of her when she got to such an extreme state? I haven’t seen any answers to these questions so far.
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By happy74, November 15, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
Sorry – I don’t want to attack you. I do think you have valid points about a cult mentality as being the source of the problem.
But these are also important questions as to how a person got so isolated from their family and lover that they committed suicide. In my experience, having had a family member and a friend of my parents commit suicide, it is very hard to reach a person no matter what you say or do once they get into that extreme state of mind. Usually there is mental illness and chemical imbalance that needs treatment, physically, for any hope of recovering their inner stability and hope.
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editor Reply:
January 1st, 2009 at 11:15 pm
“But these are also important questions as to how a person got so isolated from their family and lover that they committed suicide”
The answer to this is simple – the BKWSU ‘philosophy’ teaches that family, friends, colleagues and society is completely impure, karmic bondage at best, and to be renounced. Thus a “good’ BK is one who has completely separated himself from anyone he or she knew prior to joining the cult. So after many years of life as a BK, when someone leaves, they have noone. The BKWSU deliberately removes all family and social structures that existed in an individuals life and denounces mental health professionals as “shudras” (impure and ignorant). The result is that someone who leaves the BKs after an extended membership will be completely isolated and the BKWSU itself will not engage with those people to help them in any way.
Given that a longer term member is also probably unemployable by that stage, they will be poor, jobless, completely alone, totally confused about who they are, and unable to have any hope in the future. Suicide becomes an serious option.
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kana gopal Reply:
September 18th, 2010 at 8:50 am
it is easy to blame an organisation or another person when someone commits suicide. at a subtle level a person who takes his/her life wants to hit back at someone or something. that is violence and peacelessness.
at any time, a person has an option, no matter how bad the situation is. my experience is that if we hold on to Baba thru a senior and keep honest communication with the senior, we are safe. i have seen miracles happen in BK life cos i have always been honest with a senior. i have broken principles along the way and bounced back. not proud of it but have become wiser and more cautious about maya and how subtle and powerful it is. now i can help others from falling from those kind of traps.
BK life in essence is about being soul conscious, such a beautiful state to be.all the maryadas, the murli is to help the soul become soul conscious — props in the early stages to help us become naturally soul conscious and divine beings.
when Baba uses any word, he says it matter of fact, in a neutral manner. it is not emotive or judgemental. the colouring is on the part of the listener. if we listen to the murli in a soul conscious state, we will catch the nuance and energy of His sharing.
i hope the soul has moved on. i am reading this 17 years on and sending her love and light from Baba.
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filthy shudra Reply:
September 18th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
You are way too presumptuous kana gopal. To compare yourself to someone who felt the need to commit suicide and to presume that your experiences are the same lacks humility and compassion.
The “organisation” has to shoulder the blame because the values and “gyan’ it teaches distorts and restricts the ability of any person, who truly believes it, to move away freely and live a different life.
You already show that effect – saying that it is maya and a trap to beware of. It is you that has now been trapped. How easily can you walk away from BKs without working hard to reconfigure your mind set?
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
How are you coping with being an ex bk? Do you miss your relationship with Baba? Did you have one? I moved away from the bks and took a lover. Wow! I missed that relationship with Baba. I could see what He meant then in all the murlis I had read before. I couldn’t closely connect with Him, even though I was still reading murlis every day. The connection was becoming weaker and weaker and I was not happy. It got to a point where I realised; Hah this person is feeding off me. He is taking from me every breath of life, all my energy. Baba doesn’t take. He only gives. I walked out and went back to have a relationship with Baba, the Husband of all husbands! Oh yeah! He doesn’t ask me for anything. I am free to be me; and I love it. And from that time I have developed loving relationships with so many other souls, not sexual but definitely loving. And you don’t have to live in a bk centre to have a relationship with Baba, but you do need to become a Brahmin. Only Brahmin souls will have this very close relationship.
filthy shudra Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Dear dontwannabeatarget
You ask “How are you coping with being an ex bk? Do you miss your relationship with Baba? Did you have one? ”
I do not consider myself in the negative, i.e. an ex-bk, in the same way i do not identify myself as an ex-high school student or the ex-member of a group. So the question needs to be “how do you cope with being who you are?”
As for missing my relationship with Baba – no more than missing my relationship with Santa Claus. While I believed, it was wonderful, and discovering otherwise was a disillusionment – but I prefer not to be under illusions.
Did i have one? Well, just answered that, and probably longer than you.
So you ” … realised; Hah this person is feeding off me. He is taking from me every breath of life, all my energy. Baba doesn’t take. He only gives. I walked out and went back to have a relationship with Baba, the Husband of all husbands! ”
You obviously picked the wrong lover, you should’ve given me a call! Seriously though, God or Jesus, or whoever your projected beloved is, will always be more perfect and be able to fulfil your “needs” as that figure is an ideal (whom you only give time to when you want to and can easily ignore when you don’t) No human relationship can be so easy – we humans don’t just disappear when our partners ignore us, and reappear when they think of us.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
You say “filthy shudra” that you believed and it was wonderful, and for a long time. But I wonder if you were a practitioner; a yogi. It’s one thing to believe and quite another to put the lessons into practice. Without practising, you would not have developed a relationship with Shiv Baba and would not have experienced, as a result, peace, love, happiness, bliss and gained the power to fly over every difficult encounter with anyone, including any bk. Shiv Baba has called Himself Father Xmas on occasion, but He is not imaginary. He is real. And I have the experiences that prove it to me. You won’t believe if you have not had similar experiences. Human relations are difficult at this time as we are all fifthy shudras, meaning, the soul has become tired and finds it hard to cope with the demands of a relationship. The soul is weak and needs to be refilled with power to be able to be tolerant of others’ behaviour. Shiva Baba ( the Benevolent Father of all souls i.e.) fills the souls who remember Him with power to be strong enough to tolerate and love souls who don’t have the power to do so.
Divine Hunter Reply:
October 14th, 2010 at 2:45 am
hi kana gopal.lemme ask you one thing.is it really possible to dettach from your body during meditation?did you ever feel anything like that as bkwsu says?could u ever talk to baba in real?can u ‘fly’ when ever u want to as they says?i am into b.k since 1995 and still am in search of god.i didnt get any feeling like dettaching from body, flying from body….blah…blah..pls….. a honest answer will be much helpful for my confused mind.
Experience Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Dear Divine Hunter. I am not Kana, but I can relate my experience to you. I was a non believer in God and a skeptical believer in spirituality, and very intellectual. It was a series of many experiences, in the “bodiless stage”, feeling detached from the body, seeing my own subtle avyakt form in the mirror, among many other experiences, that enabled my intellect to open up to knowledge. Some of these things happened just prior to meeting the BK’s and they continued for about the first year. It was actually the only way that I would have been able to accept that God exists and that I am a soul. I deeply wanted to know what Truth was when all of this started and had gone on a sabbatical for four months, I was determined to learn more about myself and got a whole lot more than I ever expected. That said, you cannot transfer your experiences of the incorporeal or subtle to anyone through words. I suggest you ask for your own signals and experiences from Baba.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
It’s possible to experience all these things, if you work at it. If you really want something you’ll get it. How much do you want it though? To fly you need to renounce the attraction/pull of this physical world. Can you do that? I have experienced all these and much more. It comes after making a lot of spiritual endeavour, this means remembering “God” your eternal Father and forming a relationship with Him. Can you do this? If you can you will get all these experiences.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
Shiv Baba says in the murlis NOT to leave your home and family. Stay there but see each one as a brother soul. This is the renunciation. It is renunciation of wanting to take from anyone except the Supreme. It is the renunciation of old bad behavioural habits, such as jealousy, possessiveness, anger. You are taking every bk to be living in a centre. Very few live in a centre. The waste majority live in their own homes with their families. One example, if it is that, is not the whole organization and everyone there.
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By admin, November 19, 2008 @ 6:48 am
Happy74, I don’t want to name the brother concerned as he has also suffered a great deal. He did marry her and try to look after her, but the reality was that he was as confused and traumatised as she was – they were of no help to each other. Ranjana’s parents lived overseas I believe.
In my opinion the vast majority of westerners or westernised Indians who join the BKs or any cult are disordered. I don’t mean that in an absolute sense – but they are emotionally and psychologically compromised for some reason – could be divorce, loss of a loved one, dysfunctional childhood or perhaps something like ADHD (which I believe is very common in the ranks of the BKs).
Whichever way you look at it, happy people do not join cults. So something was going on as they joined. And whatever that “thing” is, it just becomes buried under the new beliefs, reductionist explanations and so called spiritual efforts. But at some point suppression, repression or avoidance gives way and this “thing” re-emerges with a vengeance. I think this is the real reason people suffer so much when they leave a cult.
Ranjana was never able to find a new explanation for herself, a new sense of identity, a new place in the world. The one size fits all, pre packaged identity that the BKWSU imposes on its membership was lost to her and she was effectively reduced to the emotional state of an adolescent – a complete loss of self and no clue where to go from there. She was ultimately a 13 year old in a 39 year old body. That is an extremely confusing place to be.
You also have to keep in mind that in her time in gyan she was centre stage. Back in the 1980s she read murli to London class, was a key translator and was right up there with Dadi and Jayanti. So it was not like she passed through without anyone noticing. She must have believed that she was heading for the rosary of 108 – then she fell into lust!
It was an incremental process that happened slowly over time.
I knew her quite well. I don’t want to upset anyone, or confuse anyone, but I have a strong suspicion that she was ADHD. This is why she could not redefine herself – something was going on that she could not comprehend. And this is where the BK duty of care fails. As I said, happy people don’t join the BKWSU. There is definitely a temporary or permanent disorder at play with the vast majority of new recruits. These are psychological realities that are dismissed out of ignorance as impure sanskars. This is obviously a dangerous practise and the consequences can be dire – as Ranjana proved.
We will be adding a page on psychological disorders facing BKs at some point. We hope BK management take note. We have approached them directly with quite comprehensive explanations about ADHD, OCD etc but we have been dismissed – that is what led to the creation of this site.
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dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
You must have had a very close relationship with Ranjana to be able to speak so extensively of how she felt about all of this. Where you there when she jumped? Did she tell you then why she would do it? Did you push her? Were you with her between the two “jumps”? Did you coax her to jump a second time? You seem to know everything in her mind. Tell us more about what you know about her “suicide”.
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filthy shudra Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
I personally knew Ranjana very well, and the author of that post knew her too. I agree with most of what he says – although the ADHD may be a long bow to draw, a little too specific. You can be sure that much of what is written here is based on personal experiences and a lot of reflection, not vindictiveness. A call for Duty of care procedures and protocols is based on wanting less harm for those who need to change from being “role models’ to being themselves. The culture of the inner BK circle is very cult-like and toxic, whatever the appearances from the edges or the outside.
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editor Reply:
August 20th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
“Where you there when she jumped? Did she tell you then why she would do it? Did you push her? Were you with her between the two “jumps”? Did you coax her to jump a second time?” – you are one sick puppy. You and the BKs deserve each other. At some point in your stupid existence you will come to realise you are deluded, I hope.
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dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Do you have adhd? Is this why you joined the bkwsu? What’s your story? And filthy shudra, do you have bipolar dsease? Is this why you joined the bkwsu? And Editor, do you have schizophrenia? Is this why you joined the bkwsu?
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filthy shudra Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
People join for many reasons, stay for others.
Maintaining my psyche’s well being was one reason I left! There’s only so much dissociation I can take.!
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By Julie, November 25, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
Editor, I find it interesting and very shocking that you can make such wide sweeping statements about phychological disorders. I had the good fortune of attending a talk by Dadi Janki recently, it was not her words but her presence that I found extrodinary. I have always had an inclusive spirituality and was interested in getting to understand more about the BK’s. I am glad that I have discovered your site for it gives me another view. I like to think as I have got older my spiritual discrimanation has grown and I am able to listen to both sides and acknowledge that their are strong views and maybe some bias and imperfection on all sides. If there is a truth surely it is beyond concept, boundless and unborn and can only be known experentially by letting go, aided by us strengthening those relative aspects of ourself like love that removes barriers between self and others. Surely love and service extends to all unconditionally. Any thing that tends to superiority or a closing of the heart is surely missing the point.
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By editor, November 27, 2008 @ 4:56 am
Dadi Janki is very charming. That is one of the cornerstones of her success as the political head of a large organisation that she has controlled for a long time. She has been engineered into celebrity status and that also has a powerful effect on those who are new to her “presence”. If you read the History page you will also find that she is a liar and manipulator.
You are quite right when you say “Any thing that tends to superiority or a closing of the heart is surely missing the point.” If you read the pages that identify the BKWSU as a cult you will see that they are entirely elitist and indoctrinate all their members into the belief that they are the chosen ones and that ‘worldly souls’ such as yourself are impure and degraded and that your only salvation lay in becoming a BK. I bet Dadi Janki didn’t tell you that!
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A B SAGaR Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
You are absolutely RIGHT …
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By Julie, November 28, 2008 @ 6:36 pm
Dear editor, I had read all of your site it is useful in that it gives me a alternative view. Much of what you say is also true of many religions/religious groups who the world would consider main stream and it is also clear the secular world has many short comings and does not hold all the answers. Much of what you describe is exactly what one expect from individuals earnestly engaged in a spiritual quest. You make little mention of the benefits this organisation may bring to many of its members.(sadly there are casulties as well) If I accept your critic of the organistion then BK obviously have areas where they could improve and personally I would struggle with some of their world views as presented on your website. However I hope this would not blind me to the positives. Surely all of us have the right to choose our own spiritual path however we may arive at it. I for one am not arrogant enough to consider I have the only take on truth. You do seem very angry, no doubt with very good reason. Unfortunately anger sometimes can become all consuming leading to outright hatred causing us to suffer greatly and our minds to become very unhappy. Thank you for providing the information you have. I wish you well and hope you can find away to stay positive and resolve your issues with the BK. On BK’s part, I hope they will fully accomplish the love, humility, respect for others and other spiritual qualities taught by Dadi Janki in her book Companion of God. I will not post again. Much spiritual love to you. Julie
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By editor, November 28, 2008 @ 11:21 pm
Thanks Julie. Yes the tone of this site reflects anger – but I would say that it is the product of frustration of trying to communicate with BKWSU management. I was very much on the inside of the BK institution and know all the main players well. Some years after leaving myself I started to approach some of the most senior people with concerns about those who had left the organisation and the apparently inevitable trauma they experienced. I got a sympathetic ear at first and I was invited to India to see Dadi Janki with a free ticket thrown in.
To my dismay I found that Dadi Jankis only interest was to re convert me back into the fold and all concerns I raised were summarily dismissed. This lead to a concerted effort to raise the profile of the issues which also resulted in zero. Duty of care, organisational responsibility, or even the concern to listen, are apparently not important to the BKWSU.
That left us with only one option – to scream and shout until we got heard. And that screaming and shouting is this site. Honestly, I would rather not be spending my time and energy on this, but the trauma that I experienced and that I know many, many others have experienced, requires that this effort is made. The BKWSU just cannot be allowed to continue to decimate peoples lives and not care.
And I am sorry to tell you that Dadi Janki did not write the book Companion of God. It was a compilation of material put together by a very dedicated sister who is now also listed as ‘decimated’.
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By Julie, November 29, 2008 @ 6:56 am
Dear Editor., Thank you for your response and honesty. I had not wanted to post again, but felt it important to clarify that The Companion of God is a compilation of material that reflects Dadi Janki’s teachings, which is what I’m sure you meant. One has to assume that the sister who compiled it was inspired enough by the content to gather it together. I am sorry to hear she is now ‘decimated’. I hope that your concerns get to be heard and the spiritual qualities like love, humility and respect for others the book talks off will increase.
Julie
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By The Truth, December 26, 2008 @ 12:43 am
What is a book? Its only a manicured PR exercise.
What are “teachings”? More of the same.
Where an individual’s state of mind, or being, becomes apparent is not in stage managed promotion events but in dealing with crises like this one or by long term trends.
Janki Kripalani has either lived off the BK founder, relative Lekhraj Kripalani, or her followers for the whole of her life. She has let her followers publicise her as being “the most stable mind in the world” when it turns out no such claim was ever made by any scientists and turn her into a guru … a demi-god they believe is “one of the top 8 souls in the history of the world”.
She presides over an organization that has;
extensively faked its history,
covered up its past, abuses and tragedies,
continued to “manicure” the spiritualist messages it believes to be from God to hide the failed predictions and factual errors,
no democratic structure and no rights for its followers …
none of that is “Divine” or enlightened.
If Janki Kripalani has a “divine gift” … it is for sniffing out money from her potential devotees and working her way up the greasy pole of power and influence. Brahma Kumaris are desperate to re-market her as some Mother Theresa. They shield her from honest lines of questioning at public events. The private face is quite different. Janki Kripalani’s business savvy might impressive but not her ethics.
She is just another one in a long line of Hindu Gurus that have turned up in the naive West with nothing more than a suitcase and turned spirituality into money making machine.
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By handsomeguy, December 28, 2008 @ 3:43 am
Hi, just had a look at the website, i’m following a 7 day course at the BK medication centre and wanted to know further. All these information make me confused. As from what i gathered Mr the editor you had followed this movement and then quit, but do you still meditate? coz i just want to to take the relaxation meditation stuff, my aim for following the course. Have heard that meditation and food can even cure heart diseases. I even met someone who related his experience of how he became well after taking the meditation and veg food stuff. I have the intention of bringing an uncle of mine who has a heart condition. What do you advise? thanks and keep cool!
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By The Truth, December 28, 2008 @ 7:42 am
handsomeguy …
“Peace of mind” is just the sales pitch … the hook … the Brahma Kumaris use. The BKs will not tell you the truth of their religion until the hook is deep within you.
What the BKs are doing is not “meditation” but hooking you up to a spirit entity that their psychic mediums claim to “channeling”. They want to use your mind, and wealth. They believe that this spirit entity comes and speaks to them at their Indian headquarters and that it is the god of all religions. Their practise is focusing their minds on it 24 hours, 7 days a week … Baba, Baba, Baba …
If you get sucked in, it will turn your life upside down. In most people’s experience, the so called teachers have not got a clue about spiritual matters. They want to convert you into being a follower so that they can claim an inheritance and to do so will tell you anything.
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By editor, December 28, 2008 @ 10:47 pm
Hi Handsomeguy – interesting label you have given yourself. But yes meditation can help in health matters, as can the right diet and lifestyle.
After I left the BKs I stopped meditating because it was too much of a BK thing. But after some years I started again, but now it is a self styled meditation that has a universal feel about it. The Raja Yoga that the BKs teach as meditation is much more a practise of self indoctrination – it is a meditation that is dependent on you being closely involved with the Bks.
So I agree that meditation can be good for you – but not the meditation as taught by the BKWSU. Keep looking, reading and experimenting and develop a meditation that works for you.
The lesson we have learned from the Bks is that using a single organisation / religion / group as the source of your meditation can be fatal!
I recommend Buddhism as a good source of spiritual teachings and meditation techniques.
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GNR15 Reply:
May 8th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Thank you for writing this. I’ve been going to BK since January 2010. After a month I noticed that something was wrong, but I kept going cause I wanted to find a cure for my eating disorder. I have stopped going to BK a few weeks ago. However, it is imposible for me to meditate cause it brings me the BK memories. Still I am on my search for a peaceful, happy life. BK is not the answer. It was erasing who I am. I am still very confused, but I will survive.
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By Ravi, December 30, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
Dear Brother(editor),
Your concerns are understood. I understand your expression of frustration. As some others expressed, it is our fault to not understand the God and teachings part of it.
The Gyan is very simple for those who are not well formally educated, and really tough for those who are highly educated.
Howmany every times bapdada says ‘Follow Father’, we always follow Bro/Sis and their charm..and there is nothing wrong that you folowed Sis.Jayanthi or Dadi Janki.
But being one responsible at center and having lead many to their destiny and they being happy now and you being out is not so goodto hear. You say all this stuff ‘cult etc..’ but can u see howmany are afected and howmany not. There are somany people who have transformed in real sense to be happy people. And your statement that ‘only unhappy people join’ and continue later goes on to prove that BKs are successful in spreading peace and happiness though not yet perfect.
Your urge to bring ‘Care for ex bks’ into BK institution is wonderful. If that is brought may be all those powerful energetic ones like you will come out as mics and reveal the truth to the whole world. I too hope it comes asap.
And one thing I don’t understand is your reason for anger. Is it about the care and responsibility of BK for ex bks and exit path? or The whole of principles and belief itself. I think the second should not be the real reason..as you have spent 20 valuable years of your life as a matured person. Then why try to defame someone..Why don’t you chose a more constructive path..of being a bk and doing it(caring or ex bks) and advising the same to your mates…who you guide to become a bk.
It is not good to think that becoz you were a VIP bk, Janki dadi or jayanthi ben has to listen to you. You could have started to care about others and gave some proper guidance for their exit when you had so much influence. And the wonderful thing is that there is no written law that you souldn’t do…
Please think in a positive way and take actions which can be like a positive criticism…(else you’ll become an example of bapdadas words of traitor, plese don’t let it become like that).
Just that everyone want to beocme no.1 and try for that, just that we have to understand that not becoming no.1 is no sin. But not being happy is, when there was a golden oppurtunity…..
Please be positive..if we want to see negative, we can always find it. as Julie said it is good to take positive things while we work actively to eliminate negatives if any…
Just spread peace, happiness, love and not hatred…
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editor Reply:
January 1st, 2009 at 11:03 pm
It is unfortunate that most people who visit this site do not understand the purpose of it. As you have noted, all we are asking for is duty of care. That is all. Is it an unreasonable request? Not at all. So why then are BKWSU seniors so determined to not even acknowledge the issue? Why do they, who believe they are angels who are to become deities, refuse to even have a single conversation about the welfare of those who belong to the BK community or have belonged to that community? How is it that they can preach love and compassion and not practise it at all even with those that support them or have supported them?
There is no reasonable answer. Duty of care is a matter of great importance, but the simple fact is that they just don’t care! Sister Ranjana was very close to Sister Jayanti. They lived and worked together. And yet after Ranjana AND THEN SHARAD killed themselves, Jayanti continues to ignore the issues!
She has been approached on this matter so many times and she she still refuses to even listen! This website was the result of enormous frustration and at the endless stonewalling of which BKWSU management are guilty. Then the authors of this site are labelled angry?! Well, yes, we are. People are leaving the BKWSU in the west in large numbers – many more have left than stayed. And of those who have left the consequences have been very significant. Yet there is not even a thankyou for the contribution they have made let alone any meaningful care or support.
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uma Reply:
March 7th, 2010 at 12:29 am
Dear editor..
I totally agree with ravi.
ok…based on your previous message to
HandsomeGuy on December 28, 2008 @ 10:47 pm…you recomended him to read on to buddism.
Ok, then comes the lawof Karma. dont you believe on the law of Karma? Are u just preaching like any other sanyasi?
what happen to ranjana & sharad, was tragic..but i feel, that it was their own choice. Why blame others or jayanti or bkwsu?
If truly ranjana’s in love, then she shud have just walked off, be married and life happily with that guy. Its that simple. who is stopping her? It means, all tis while, ranjana was not TRUE to herself, and only pretending.
Why is it that in churches the Sisters are celibate…but its ok..but if talk about celibacy..u guys make a fuss…
I believe…my life is in my hands…..no one i means NO ONe can decide for me. I choose to beleive what i want, right? So, Ranjana…no one pushed her from the building..its her own choice and decision. Her misunderstanding, her guilt.
yes, like ravi said, if you could use ur time and use it in a positive way, rather on dissuccing on the negativity of bkwsu…
How can someone who is being SOO negative in life..convince me…all i know, whatever u say are based on ur emotions…of anger, frustration, hatred, stress etc…
i wish u all the best in life, and god bless u.
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editor Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 8:15 am
“what happen to ranjana & sharad, was tragic..but i feel, that it was their own choice. Why blame others or jayanti or bkwsu?”
You are as ignorant as Jayanti and Janki – no concept of duty of care. No compassion. Always in denial about the effect BK philosophy can have on some people. No interest in helping to prevent this kind of tragedy happening again. Others have committed suicide since Ranjana and Sharad. And you wish things to carry on the same? How can you talk about the “negativity” of this site when you adopt such a heartless position? And why do you think we are trying to convince you? We don’t care if you are convinced you egocentric idiot – this site is to warn and help those who are researching the BKs before they commit. And with over 100,000 hits we really don’t care what you think! “i wish u all the best in life, and god bless u” – we really aren’t interested in your patronising “blessings”.
morningstar Reply:
April 10th, 2011 at 7:29 am
Uma…atleast you could try and write in good english rather than the semi illiterate tangent jumping scrawl above. What you have written above is barely comprehensible in a normal context let alone in terms of what you are trying to say. The lack of intellectual and intelligent self-questioning among BK’s is what has put me off the whole cult that it really is.
I believe the BK involved in the whole Ranjana issue was one called Julian Boles? – anyway the point is that if people like you Uma, and others, are happy to be the sheep of this world and be led on by the patronising, shallow and self-serving UNPROVEN theses of others then be my guest… but before talking to others and conveying your opinion, question what you yourself know – how much of it did you trully KNOW at birth (ie devoid of external influence) and how much did OTHERS TEACH you…?
And please, no cop-out replies including any of your ‘blessings’ – you know not of God from the moment you claim to be in a position that is superior to that of any other human.
Shante Reply:
June 21st, 2011 at 2:17 am
That is so true sista! Om Shanti
editor Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 8:01 am
You are equally patronising and ignorant – the condescending nature of an elitist BK attitude that is so annoying – you think you can tell other people how they should think and feel, that you know everything about what is right. Your comments are offensive as you make some seriously stupid assumptions about the creators and editors of this site. And you have missed the point entirely. “..and there is nothing wrong that you folowed Sis.Jayanthi or Dadi Janki.” Where do you get that from?! It says more about you.
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By jay, January 19, 2009 @ 2:07 am
This web is just plain confrontation, causing confusion and sadness. It’s all about the individual.
I, personally, do not like the maanmat that goes on, but the shrimat that is directed by GOD can never be compromised. Meditation is between you and GOD and no-one else. So handsome guy go for it. Don’t get to involved. Keep away from unnecessary things. Concentrate on yourself and GOD. I, myself, and many other BKs do this and are happy. Often invited for meetings, if I don’t like what I hear, I simply walk away.
You can join any other organisation and trust me, you will experience the same negativity.
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MC Sharma Reply:
June 17th, 2009 at 6:21 am
Great, Jay, that is the way it should be. I do not believe in the Kalp cycle, Sangam Yug, the Millenium to come etc and yet keep on going to the classes. I do not argue or contradict, but occasionally come across a good thought or two in the murli and pick it up for practising.
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Moses Reply:
June 28th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Dear Jay,
Are you celibate or normal? BKs preach celibacy and yet they were born like everyone else, how do you explain the teach that will stop the world continuity if implemented?
Moses
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thenakedtruth Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
jay, do you really believe that God, and I mean, the real God not some deceased entity, has chosen Mount Abu to reveal Himself? Have you ever questioned why, of all God’s children on planet Earth, BK’s would be so specifically special? Isn’t that a bit BK-ocentric? Indian-ocentric? (This is derived from the word egocentric by the way.)
Do you not think that the mere idea of God revealing Himself is something made up by man?
How can you pretend to trust a disembodied entity who gives directives to die alive and then call it God? It is anti-God, anti-anything that allows you to live freely.
This is not all about the individual, as you say. This is about the healthy and free human being. The one who chooses for himself because he knows how to live without relying on someone or something else to make decisions for him and tell him how to live his life.
And by the way, after an experience with the BK’s I doubt anyone will be looking to be part of another religious cult organisation.
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By The Truth, January 19, 2009 @ 8:42 pm
I read in the news of another young woman from Orissa was burnt alive in the local BKWSU centre. The police and the intelligence agencies were in the dark because the body and other relevant clues were deliberately cleared up and the BK center in charges disappeared after the crime. The headquarters went into denial claiming it was a plot to discredit them.
The driver Prem Singh and two others went missing and the center-in-charge said there was no information available about the background of the deceased.
Meanwhile, a follower hanged himself at Mount Abu HQ. In Delhi another follower committed suicide in the center and the sister went on giving class and serving food only to deal with the corpse after all the followers had left the center late.
I, mean, come on folks … wake up to reality!
Its not just that folks kill themselves but, as with the child sex abuse incidents, its the way the leadership time and time again deal with situation. It would be a farce if it was not so tragic
Meanwhile … all the followers are waking around spaced out of their minds going, “Baba, baba, baba …”.
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By klangcentreex, January 19, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
Dear mr editor,
Your site is an eye opener to everyone who is and was charmed by this so called “promoting Hinduism” tactic. I am one of the victim. I started joining the cult after reading about yoga. Wanting a peace of mind, I was introduced to bk by a neighbour. Everthing was ecentric and joyful until the part when they started attacking our saints and gurus. I was confused. this is supposed to be a satsang. During satsang we have discussion about God. everthing from the temple, brahmins, Ganges was filthy. I cannot take them in but continued to follow them.
Murali seems always to be angrily attacking other religion. When the senior reads the murali and comes to the part of attacking other religion, all the members will nod happily or laugh out loudly. I sincerely was not brought up insulting other people’s beliefs.
Prayer is another aspect that left me confused. They say that they promote Raja Yoga. Isn’t that part of Hinduism? Then I cannot pray like is normaly do. Now what do I do with all the gods I have at home? I cannot just throw my god. I believe in Shiva, so do I believe in Vishnu and Krishna.
Attacks on our Bhagwad Gita had me unhappy. I still went for classes diligently and took more notes. I was becoming BK. I get up early for my amrit vela and try not to doze off, cooked my food with utter cleanliness and tried not to forget traffic control. Besides all this grassroot work I was doing I was still skeptical about this organisation. I tried to understand their way of life and the understanding of sacred knowledge. Later it came about all these ladies are actually parrots. I am not about to made into one. So I put my cards down. There were resentments.
I was not prepared to be ridiculed. I was so stoned by them that I refused to eat food cooked by my own mother. Can you believe that! She brought me into this world. She fed me and educated me. She was never wrong about what she fed me with until these Brahma Kumaris came along. I felt very sad. This incident left me sadder than not sleeping with my husband. Oh God, that was another chapter of my stupid dealing with those manipulative people.
So at every meeting I will be asked, “Already practising celibacy???”. My answer was always a smile. At this juncture I felt like throwing my self from the building. All this so called members are actually retired or their children supporting them not like me. I have a job and cannot be that liberal with time. So that created a gap. There will be my gang, and those not so well off gang, and poor gang, and not so “smart ” gangs. Seniors will always gang up they surely know how to make you feel not welcomed in the joint.
Back to the neighbour who introduced me. Nice family, sweet understanding husband (brother). These were the people I depended to go for my clasess. Very helpful at the beginning. So I and her became souls sharing Baba’s notes and, of course, I was happy to be “enlightened”. As time went by, this lady started to behave rather funnily. She does not like it when the husband accompany us. The tone of voice changes. So noticing it I reduced the number of times that I went to the centre. Sometimes she will be nice but sometime manipulative. It runs in the (blood) members I suppose.
This lady is also a big gossiper. Things got even bad after the much spoken of trip to Mount Abu. She started to become even more egoistic. Talking bad about everyone even the Dadis. So each time after the morning murali, I have to listen to her murali now. So and so has done this. So and so has given me the maya. The list goes on until I reach my house. Then the phone calls pursue with Sister, “Do you know ?…” That will sometimes took 1 to 2 hours.
All the while I cannot bring myself to tell her off because Baba always say do be a thorn and prick each other. After 2 years I told her that I will not be going to classes with her. I will make an effort to go alone. She asked why and I told it is my personal request that Baba allows me to do so. So that he knows I’m making an effort without depending on anyone.
All this time this sister is also running children class in her home which my children attends. One day she told me to tell stories from Bhagawad Gita but to mention they are the words of Baba not Krishna. I dont like to lie a said. She dropped the subject. This left me thinking about her true character.
I want things positive in life not just lay the blame on karma and test paper as they call it. I like to plan my life and my children’s life in a positive manner. There are some things that she teaches at the children’s clasees are very disturbing. One of it like beat your face with a slipper if you lie. Now that is not the way to teach children. That is violence. Raja yoga is not violence.
At the end I had enough of the sister and the dozing off sisters in the center. My advise to people wanting peace and tranquility in life to slow down and think carefully before you made decision of remarks. You are your best friend and no one can actually lead your life but you. Remember the BKs are just there to reap from you. They cannot give you everlasting happiness because it is a form of hypnotism.
There is nothing to it. Sit down quietly and try to listen to your own heartbeat and believe me you will be calm. After some time you will learn the art of self awareness. So do not need any big time guru as you are the greatest guru for your self.
Dont get cheated.
[Reply]
By pooja patel, March 6, 2009 @ 8:03 am
editor,
thank you for making a very true and honest website regarding this cult … I hope that more people like you speak up about this cult … I have a lot of documents saved from this cult and I know how horrible it is.
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star Reply:
June 5th, 2009 at 12:27 am
where did you find these documents? I think it is important that we really investigate what it is we are actually getting ourselves into. do not be fooled..
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By thenakedtruth, March 17, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
If you haven’t gone into the organization deeply, you cannot know what this website is truly about. So for those of you who are curious to have your own personal experience, keep your eyes and ears open but most importantly, listen to YOUR OWN SELF. If your intuition sends you a red flag, heed the warning for it is there for a reason and most importantly for your own good.
As klangcentreex said above, if you are searching for peace just slow down and listen to your own heartbeat. All the answers are in us anyway. The BK organization preys on people who are psychologically and emotionally fragile. They will convince you that your family is bad and that you are a dirty scumbag if you remotely think about the opposite sex. The seniors are all actors who smile when they are on stage, snub you when they come off stage and then stab you in the back if you don’t follow their dictates.
Life is meant to be celebrated and enjoyed, and we are meant to be vibrant and ALIVE, not walking dead zombies controlled by people who constantly put the fear of God into us. I feel terribly for those poor souls who could not reconcile the confusion and whose sole exit was death. The BKs are some of the coldest and most manipulative people I have ever encountered in my entire lifetime.
I am very sensitive to energy so I was easily seduced by the vibration and the charm of some of the leaders, but thank goodness I had enough sense and strength to recognize what was truly happening and thank goodness I loved my family and friends enough to never turn my back on them. It is important for people to speak up. The difficulty in this however, is that the throat chakra gets completely shut down from the brainwashing and mistreatment and speaking one’s truth is often overshadowed by multiple layers of fear.
There is a difference between standing up for one’s self and anger without purpose. This website has purpose and those of you who are too afraid of expressing your own anger will try to make nice nice just to avoid the much needed activism and confrontation that this brave editor is taking a stance on. The truth of the matter is, anyone who suppresses their own natural impulses for too long will then take revenge on those who are still alive and justify it with any dogma or principle of their own choosing.
The proof lies in the many diseases Brahmins develop especially in the second chakra where desire is suppressed. Sisters with ovarian cysts and brothers with colon cancer are but a few of the cases I have heard of. There would be no case if there weren’t so many people who were ill not just physically but emotionally and psychologically too. A power hungry organization has the same sanskars regardless of whether it is on Wall Street or on an ashram in India.
We know that we should look beyond appearances so let’s do that. Who said that a white sari and a long braid were representations of God’s truth anyway? Take charge of your own life and be the master of your own destiny. Inform yourself and read as much as possible. We all just want to be loved and this ambitious organization has taken advantage of our vulnerabilities to suit its’ own agenda.
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By pooja patel, March 24, 2009 @ 7:57 am
My mother is a part of this cult…does anyone know how I can get her out of it?
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By disdat d'udda, March 28, 2009 @ 7:00 am
have attended their meditation days/weekends for at least 4 years (on and off) and have never been asked for money, nor felt there was any pressure to join anything…found them kind and -if anything -nor invasive but quite private. found also people attending smart and independent. am i missing something? or are others trying too hard to find fault. i will continue to take advantage of their kind offers of free courses and choose what i need and leave what i don’t out. as a cult, they look pretty relax to me…
[Reply]
By klangcentreex, April 1, 2009 @ 5:30 am
dear pooja,
you can start by reading the bhagawad gita itself. Your mother will get alot of enlightenment. Believe me there is nothing but pure hypnotism in Brahma kumari. They are all out to accumulate wealth at your expense.
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Shante Reply:
June 20th, 2011 at 6:23 am
Please elaborate for me how do they accumulate wealth out at one’s expense because i have been attending classes with the BK’s for the past 3 years and I have never seen any signs of this. Instead it’s the opposite for their courses are for free – only money i’ve spent is for the retreats attended and the tithe that I give out of my own free will. Please enlighten me Klangcentreex!
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filthy shudra Reply:
June 20th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Dear Shante
They do this by your voluntarily giving more and more. As you become more committed to them, you cut off more from other social and family connections. You’ll happily give more time, energy and money in the name of service which will help you gain higher status in Sat Yuga. So its not only the money given, but the money the institution saves not having to pay for staff or labour.
If you are wealthy they will tend to offer you better facilities, better access to seniors and important (to them) programs, give more attention to you etc. Such peopel are then indirectly invited to “sponsor” or donate, or they feel obliged to.
Those who are BKs for decades may feel they have no other real connections left (in their own minds, in reality they often have friends and family who would love to have them back), and many of these older ones leave their estates to the BKs in their will.
There is a lot of waste and inefficiency in the BKWSU. I’d suggest that if you do want to donate, donate to their hospital in Mt Abu which also gives free medical care to the poor locals, somewhere like that where there are tangible benefits. Not wasted on here today gone tomorrow service programs.
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By pooja patel, May 25, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
Hi Klangcentreex….
If I read the Gita how will that help my mom get enlightened?
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By pooja patel, May 25, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
The naked truth!
Amazing
. i agree!
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By star, June 5, 2009 @ 12:23 am
i want to thank ‘thenakedtruth’ for such a clean comprehensive argument. I completely agree with what you r saying. I am usually a very proactive, strong, dynamic and confident person but after a few sessions at the local BK centre, my throat chakra too would completely shut down and i would lose all my sense of self and barely be able to even squeak out a little word due to fear which i thought i could overcome but have had trouble doing so..
I personally am still feeling extremnely confused about this whole ‘damn’ organisation. I am extremely angry that i have trusted the and almost fallen completely in love with many of the members there only to find after some reading that it was all a sham and hoax aimed at brainwashing me completely. It really saddens me because i believe so much in humanity and peace and freedom of expression, and respecting all living things, and my passion and integrity and innocent trust were used for ‘other’ negative motives. It really is like abuse in the most overt form possible. Manipulation and charm, a mask of sweetness and kindness only to lure the open hearted and trusting. I have personally experienced so much love and joy and freedom and peace with the BKs, but now that i have really grounded myself and taken this place very seriously as opposed to a ‘simple place i just meditate at’ i can recall certain incidents that felt quite uncomfortable. There have been some slips with some of the members whom i thought were really loving. Rough comments here and there, masks fading at times, much positive denial. You can feel it in their energy if you were really honest with yourself. There is so much positive denial going on, i wanted to believe it was all real and true but have realised now that bk or not, we are all human and at the end of the day are our own boss, our own masters, knowing what is best for us. I think it is important to have the courage to stand our own ground, like some of the great world leaders like ghandi etc. and not surrender our own truth and identities to neone or thing, be it a cult, person, organistion. We are no ones slave! I am saddenned that i have to let the BK family go. There were some very intelligent, inetresting and beautiful ppl there, and my vision of a greater world was so huge and i enjoyed sharing it amongst others. But i will not ever surrender my soul or self to anyone. I am now seriously questioning the validity of the BK centres and practices and have realised that although there is much good in personal evolution and greater awareness, to have my growth manipulated by an organistion that i wholeheartedly trusted only to find that there was much more to meets the eye, is uncalled for, unhealthy and quite seductive, rude, misleading and brutal. I am saddenned and angered by the oragnisation so far and have decided that i can create a peaceful, wonderful, joyous and self respecting life for me and the world around me without haveing to be maniplauted by ‘mysterious’ motives of an organisation that from 2 years experience only want to rob you of your independence and free will. I am so deeply sorry to all the good hearted ppl that enter the centre in search for something greater in this world, but i highly recommend to everyone that attempts Bk practices or are thinking about it, to tread carefully and do not every block out the voive of your own inner guidance. take care to everyone. God bless
[Reply]
By editor, June 7, 2009 @ 6:14 pm
There is quite a bit of documentation available to those who want to investigate. I think we have enough on this site to make our case. Also, if you go to http://www.brahmakumaris.info you can get more information.
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By FacialFace, August 7, 2009 @ 11:43 am
I speak as an “ex-BK” who hopes one day to return to the spiritual practice. I can’t agree with any of the negative things you have to say about the organisation. Every bad thing people say they have experienced in relation to the BKs seems to be more about the person they’ve had contact with than the actual teaching. And that’s the same with any spiritual teaching or religion.
The BK philosophy isn’t one of “we are the only way to salvation”. It’s one of “we are the only way to salvation for those who are supposed to find this form of salvation”. If you are destined to be a Christian, then your salvation lies within Christianity. If you’re destined to be a Muslim, then that is where your destiny lies.
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Tell the truth Reply:
August 14th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
You don’t mean “spiritual practice” you mean “being a BK follower”. There is a difference. BKs seem to think they have a monopoly on being spiritual.
Likewise, it does not sound like you are “ex-BK” … you are a BK supporter. You just don’t follow the principles any more.
What concerns me is that the manner in which you represent the teachings is not honest.
Not only are the BK teachings absolutely supremacist … “they are pure, all others are impure … theirs in the highest religion”. The BKs even teach, and believe, that all other religions and religious leaders MUST come to the Brahma Kumaris are their BapDada spirits to re-learn their own religion. That includes Christ, Buddha and Mohammed who they believe have reincarnated many time and are now in their “most degraded form” on earth.
Is that an accurate quote or not? All other religions are “stumbling around in darkness” is what Lekhraj Kripalani – or God – said.
No, the rot goes right to the core of the insane teachings that BK adherents go out of their way to hide from the rest of the world.
What you mean from a BK point of view by “we are the only way to salvation for those who are supposed to find this form of salvation” … is that all the other “ignorant” “body-conscious” religions like Buddhism, Christianity and the Yogis of India are doomed never to be reborn in Heaven because only the Brahma Kumaris are. No other religion leads to salvation (moksha) according to the God of the BKWSU.
Only Brahma Kumaris followers are eternally destined to enjoy heaven on earth for 2,500 years. None of the other religions, nor their leaders, do so ever. They only enjoy “Hell on Earth” for 2,500 years. Nor are their any “Heaven” in any other real for them to enjoy.
• Those are the real teachings of the BKWSU Facial, are they not?
What you are saying regards “salvation lies within Christianity” is false according to the BKWSU Knowledge, isn’t it. Only the Holy Ghosts of the BKWSU (BapDada) can grant salvation … and their founder was the number One human being.
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By The Torch, August 14, 2009 @ 11:15 pm
all these BKs line up to defend their leaders and religion………none mention the parents of Ranjana and Sharad Patel who died because of this cult
what about the other Indians in India who have committed suicide too?
i suppose for all these rich whites followers that is just “their karma” and down to “personal problems” too…………..no one wants to take responsibility
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Shante Reply:
June 21st, 2011 at 2:38 am
I don’t see why the BK’s should be held responsible for Ranjana’s death. Really this is utter ignorance on the part of the persons who think so. THe way I see it is that Ranjana got overwhelmed by the knowledge and decided, “she did”, to take her life. Same goes to other Indians too. Please let us not blame the BK’s for decisions made by others on their own accord.
May Her Sould Rest in Peace.
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By Tom, August 15, 2009 @ 7:15 am
Dear Torch,
You said: “none mention the parents of Ranjana and Sharad Patel who died because of this cult”. Please clarify. Who is Sharad Patel? Has he also died because of BKWSU? How? Or have the parents of both mentioned died because of BKWSU? What do you mean?
You said:” what about the other Indians in India who have committed suicide too?”Who are these Indians who committed suicide in India?
Please be specific and tell us what you mean and whom you mean?
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By Tom, August 15, 2009 @ 1:19 pm
Hi Torch and all,
Now i read the Admin’s article “Suicide- A Tragic Outcome” and learned about the first suicide attempt of Ranjana jumping from the 4th floor of a building from which she survived miraculously with injuries and then disappeared and some months later somebody identified a photo of her from a mortuary where her corps was lying 3 months long unidentified, that she jumped from the 5th floor of a building to death,and few years later Ranjana’s brother Sharad threw himself under a train.I have never heard such a family tragedy before.
I am repeating these facts to help myself to comprehend the tragedy their parents are confronted.After the first suicide attempt if the Seniors of the BKWSU in Madhuban and in London and “Baba’s instruments” in Ranjana’s center had some feelings as human beings they should let her have professional help and if she would refuse professional help they should never let her stay alone.
After such a suicide attempt whole family needs help, her desperate husband and her brother and the parents of course.If the Seniors would care for her and for her family both suicides could be avoided.
I did not know about her first suicide attempt and her final suicide from a higher building. I did not know about her brother’s tragic death also.
Now i am very sorry for the years i have spent in the BKWSU loving and respecting the Dadi’s and Dada’s.What a shame that nobody searched for her even not through the security forces after her first suicide attempt as she got lost with injuries.
These Seniors are not Divine as they believe to be,i see them as some sort of miserable freaks who are looking at the mirror and thinking that they are right and left hands of God.
Dear Torch, please let us know about other suicides in India which have not been published in these forums.
[Reply]
brahmakumaris.info Reply:
August 16th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
As a selection of reports we have received at brahmakumaris.info:
• male suicide in Delhi center. Center-in-charge locked the door went on with the groups rituals and feeding adherents before calling police etc.
• young female suicide in Agra by self-immolation (fire). Evidence removed by adherents. Girls believed to be in love and seeking to marry a non-believer.
• male follower in Madhuban by hanging.
• male follower, and major funder, of Panipat center, India who had previous raised the issues surrounding the death of a young female at the same center. Center-in-charge absconded from the police. Allegations of poisoning, most likely suicide.
• “Yogini”, South African sister.
• female suicide in UK on January 18, the most holy “Baba’s Day” according to the BKWSU.
• Numerous minor failed attempts.
This list is not exhaustive. What is clear in every case above, including Ranjana’s and Sharad’s are direct and often symbolic connections to the BKWSU, e.g. Ranjana’s 5th floor, the “fire of lust” and suicides in the “Baba’s Rooms” of major centers.
As the BKWSU is not open about the history of such incidents, nor the mental breakdowns that occur before them, it is impossible to know the full and accurate picture.
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By editor, September 2, 2009 @ 4:55 am
You will notice that the main complaint we have here is about the ORGANISATIONS failings – of which there are many – and therefore the problem lay squarely on the shoulders of senior leadership. As has been said before, if Dadi and Jayanti wanted duty of care, there would be duty of care – but they don’t and there isn’t. That is THE problem.
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By james kahn, December 24, 2009 @ 1:28 pm
The introduction paragraph says that she was a ‘young woman’. Yet her death certificate states she was born in 1955 meaning she was in her 40′s. That is not young. That is the action of a woman desperate to get laid…poor girl
These BK’s talk about Kalyug being here. However they fail to realize that they are responsible for it. There is no way they will have anything to do with this death or have a ‘duty of care’. They hide behind the law, and take advantage of democracy. One day they will get caught out, and every single one of them will jump off a 5th floor building.
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because.parmeshwar Reply:
January 6th, 2010 at 12:25 am
As long as we are following their shrimat(rules), every thing goes smooth and rather better. After some time, these shrimats, seems to be boring as one feels very lonely and separated. Forcefully he has to follow them, as by this time we get caught by them. Then the real game starts. We remain in the guilty consiousness of not following their shrimat and not reaching the absolute purity. The feeling goes on increasing, if you are not able to perform, resulting in severe trauma and extreme decisions.
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By first_time, January 12, 2010 @ 3:01 am
Respected peoples
i am 29 year old man from india..from my childhood, i am inclined towards religion because of lots of unsloved or solved (to me unsolved) question kept running in my mind…who am i ?? what happens after death ?? why i am alive ?? this type of basic unsolved paradox..which is still going on…i have heard so many theories..scientific or religious..philosophical..ideas from rank and file…but nothing seemed to satisfy me fully for long time…confusions kept on coming and could not get the answers..currently, i decided to practice patonjali’s raj-joga ( which i previously done..got some preliminary results…but later somehow discontinued)..and i think it is a mixture of science of religion..so, why not practice faithfully..as it is told in vedas that in religion hearing and learning is nothing without practice…
now,i started to read the patanjali’s method as told by swamy vivekananda..and started preliminary preparations…but as swamiji had warned that practice of rajjoga may be dangarous if your body and mind is not capable of..you may become mad..so, you need a guru or experienced teacher who can guide as well as curb you from over-doing..now, as i am married for two years now ( so my ojas may have been depleted) with one year daughter, and as i have some experience before( like ringing bells in my ears, hearing soung of cricket continously, increased brightness of the objects, smelling good scent ), i took swamiji’s advice seriously ( as according to me swamiji must have got some results which was shown by the activities of his life who conquered the west 120 years back religiously…and he was a great patriot and to some extent atheist also…) so, i long for a guru..
as i am new to this city..i donot have many contacts..but one -day while searching for a medical shop, i came accross a hoarding in front of a house that free rajjoga maditation coaching is available..i decided to have a try…
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By first_time, January 12, 2010 @ 3:30 am
continued….
i meet with the peoples…in the first meeting, four days back,one middle-aged man asked me preminary questions about me..and enquired me what type of meditation, i am doing…i told i am currently doing nadi-sudhhi..he told me, ok come monday, and we will teach how we do meditation…i was in joy that finally i have got some organisation to practice..went yesterday, morning at 7 am but as i did not take bath, they told me to come next day…
so, today i went there at 7 am after taking bath…the room was quite cosy..red-light lit room…but i did not see any asanas to sit there…chairs are there like class-rooms…i thought, how i will meditate sitting on a chair..no-one was there when i went…so, i started reading the wall-pictures…there i came accross about the juga-cycle ( 5000 years cycles)…this is new theory i saw there…previously, i have heard the vedic kalpa juga-cycle which i think millions of years ( which is controversial but science could not refute it fully also)…also i knew there may be cycle within this cycle ( means relative ups and down in terms of religious consciousness)..but never heard of 5000 years cycle…which surprised me that muslim would be born 1400 years before destruction..then it struck me that then we are on verge of destruction…as mohammed was borned at around 600 a.c. now it is 2100 so…then right at that moment confusion came to my mind…two question came …whether they have failed in there prediction or it is like 2012 ( mayan prediction which is now famous because of the movie)…
sudenly one lady in her early twenties came and asked me which language i know ( because you know in india there is so many languages)..i told hindi will be fine for me…
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By first_time, January 12, 2010 @ 4:43 am
Then she lead me to an another room and came back with lots of laminated picture sheets with her..she was white-dressed ( i know you all know these but i am tring to narrate my experience like a story..enjoy it )…and started discussion…i felt very nice as i think it will be very nice to have a good religious discussion, i love it…but i was to some dis-appointed also, because i thought i have to again listen the same stories ( theories) which i had enough..i want to realise the god or atma or self..but think ok..go through it..give a patience hearing it may turns out to be very fruitful to you…she started to explain me Who am i ??…in the sheet it is written.i am a soul (atma)..she expalined very nicely…i liked it…then there is paramatma…we are son to him..atma resides in between our eye-brows..thats why we get tilak (like the hare-krisnas) in that portion…and god (i.e paramatma) have no form…he is like a red conglomarration of light…he resides after four stage of world….then she told how we can feel the paramatma…she told that he communicate with us through mediatation…then meditation started…she told me i can meditate with my eyes open…it was totally unexpected for me…because open- eyes are distraction for mind..how you can concentrate within with eyes wide open…one more thing, she explained the eight qualities of atma and three forms of atma..mind, intellect and sanskara ( impresions)..etc etc…
then in the meditation session she told me to visualise what she is telling…in a deep voice, she told..that i am atma…i am going to meet paramatma..etc etc….which had some effect on me… when she asked..i told that i could not realise it well…as i can not feel myself as a atma clearly…i am not feeling properly about the paramatma…everything is like hazy…then she told me that you are concentrating on your eye-brows….try to visualise…i had no clue..how to visualise..if i donot have a clear idea in my mind…but i kept silence…then she adviced me to write afterwards what i have learnt today..and always think about what have been taught today…
finally, i asked that i never heard about this organisation…what about this…she told me this is 70 years old…we are coming in TV now..we have lots of oversees branches…then i asked what is your philosophy..she told come tomorrow, we will discuss…
now, some-how confusions created on my mind…and after coming back to my room, i google it…then i came to know these horrofic stories and great discussuons..then i thought to write down my first-days experiences…but as you can see i started well but i got tired so, finished quickly…
so, now lots of thoughts are going through my mind…any-way i will write it later may be to-morrow or evryday for one week…
altough, at first after reading two or three related sites, some fear came in my mind…if i get trapped in the trance..thought i will not go again…but now i am thinking, i will attend the full course…
i will keep you updated…
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neena.tailor Reply:
March 12th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
please dont go. trust me.
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By seeker, February 15, 2010 @ 2:14 pm
I have been attending raja yoga class at BKWS. I have always kept my skepticism with me while information was given to me. I thought I was learning about certain style of meditation at first. Then I realized that the meditation is quite brain washing. It really did not work well for me, imagining visits to space… God. I genuinely tried really hard but all I can achieve at best is peace. And I am cool with that. I have tried different meditation and results are about the same. I am very glad to come into this sight and being revealed of the cult aspect of the organization. They told me they are not religious organization and only promotes spirituality, love and peace. However, I found that it is strange to be told that the founder, the Brahma Baba, is the only one to have God revealing himself to the world by borrowing Brahma Baba’s body. In that case, I would rather go with Jesus. And something about that Brahma Baba, he looks rather so scary! Interesting experience though… I was told that the Golden Age is in India and played out by Indians. Brahma Baba is Krishna, Adam in Golden Age… In that case, I would rather worship Buddha. If the Idyllic world exist, how could it defined by only one race? That does not sit very well with me.
Anyways, I think I had enough of this non-sense!
I believe being true to myself at all times. I believe God loves me. And this cult figure can not dictate how I relate to God that loves me as who I am.
Thank you for this site and the information in it.
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By Tink, February 17, 2010 @ 6:07 am
Dear Editor
I think this is a very good idea. I was taken in by a very secretive cult and there was always smoke but never fire and i just thought bad evil people were just trying bring down the rightous. Little did I know the smoke was nothing compared to the fire and only after 2 people were murdered but the place did authoriteis come in and rescue all the others. and only thne did other local people start believeing that these people were bad.
I wish there had been a website to help me with ex members on it.
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By Gursharan S Sidhu, February 19, 2010 @ 9:11 am
All the answers about GOD are in Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs holy book.This holy book is translated in many languages, Please read and get all your answers.
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Joel Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 1:36 am
The great holy book of the Sikhs is one of many sources for guidance about how to understand and experience God.
This website is about cultlike behavior of a particular religious group that also appears to offer “all the answers.” It is sad when the “answers” lead a person to end their own life, especially when–and this is our concern here–the leaders of the religious group in question have failed to establish adequate duty-of-care policies, even after witnessing the (most likely preventable) suicide deaths of group members who were driven at least in part by god-given “answers” that they interpreted as irremedial condemnation.
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By shweta, February 25, 2010 @ 3:09 am
I don’t think that bkwsu is wrong in either a way. That sucide is related to Ranjana’s thought.So how Bkwsu is concerned.She feel very bad and that’s why she committed sucide. I think Ranjana was totally confuse for being alive.bkwsu is spritual university so this type of persapstion is not correct.
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editor Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 7:26 am
This opinion is that of a typically oblivious BK. You are naive and gullible. Don’t offend Ranjanas memory with simplistic commentary.
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By PK, March 14, 2010 @ 5:35 pm
DEAR READERS,
I AM NOT RELATED TO BKWSU IN ANY WAY EXCEPT ONE OF MY CLOSE FRIEND WAS VERY MUCH INVOLVED WITH IT.I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY CULT OR GOING TO TEMPLES. I LIKE TO PRAY TO SUPREME BEING IN THE CORNER OF MY HOUSE. I AM VERY WELL EDUCATED PROFESSIONAL AND HAVE A WONDERFUL AND VERY HAPPY FAMILY AND GOOD FRIENDS.
THE VERY REASON I CAME ACROSS THIS SITE IS THE SUFFERINGS OF MY FRIEND.
SHE WAS A VERY A VIBRANT, CHARMING, TALKATIVE, HELPING,CARING,HARD WORKING LADY. BUT SHE WAS VERY EMOTIONAL AND WEAK MINDED.SHE CAN BE EASILY IMPRESSED BY ANY ONE.VERY EASY TO BE CONVINCED. I DO NOT KNOW BUT MAY BE SHE IS HYPERACTIVE.
AFTER A LOSS OF FAMILY MEMBER SHE WAS LOOKING FOR MENTAL PEACE.
UNFORTUNATELY SHE CAME ACROSS BKWSU AND SHE JOINED THE CENTER. ONCE CENTER FOUND OUT ABOUT HER WEALTH,PEOPLE AT THE CENTER TOTALLY BRAIN WASHED HER.
AS IT IS MENTIONED IN PREVIOUS COMMENTS.LITTLE BY LITTLE SHE WAS FORCED TO EXCOMMUNICATE HER FROM ALL HER FRIENDS AND FAMILY INCLUDING HER HUSBAND.AN OUTGOING,PARTY LOVING, HAPPY WOMAN WAS TRANSFORMED IN TO A VERY QUITE,SIMPLE LADY, WHO DID NOT CARE FOR ANY WORLDLY POSSESSIONS.
SHE WAS RICH A MILKING COW. CENTER KEPT DRAWING MONEY FROM HER.
SHE WAS TOTALLY ISOLATED AND ALONE. SHE JUST WANTED TO BE PURE AND GO TO HIGHER LEVEL.
CENTER WAS EVERYTHING FOR HER.
BUT ONE DAY CENTER ASKED HER TO LEAVE HER HUSBAND.AT THAT POINT SHE GOT UPSET AND REFUSED TO DO THAT.
AFTER THAT INCIDENT SHE WAS TORMENTED PSYCHOLOGICALLY IN SUCH A WAY,THAT TODAY POOR LADY IS SUICIDAL.SHE WAS ADMITTED TO PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL,AND IS BEING TREATED FOR HER PROBLEMS.HER LIFE IS MISERABLE AND HER FAMILY IS MORE MISERABLE.
SHE WAS BRAIN WASHED SO MUCH THAT EVEN AFTER SO MUCH SUFFERINGS STILL SHE BELIEVES IN PURITY OF SOULS AND NECESSITY OF STAYING AWAY FROM IMPURE FRIENDS.
READERS PLEASE WAKE UP AND DO NOT LET YOUR SELF SUCCUMBED TO THIS KIND OF CULT WHO WANTS TO SUCK OUT ALL JUICE FROM YOU AND THEN THROW YOU AWAY LIKE A USELESS ANIMAL.
PLEASE STOP YOUR FRIEND IF ANYONE IS GOING IN THAT DIRECTION.IT WILL BE A ONE OF THE BEST SERVICE TO YOUR FRIEND YOU CAN GIVE.
I HAVE NO PERSONAL VENDETTA AGAINST BKWSU.
IT IS REALLY VERY PAINFUL TO SEE CLOSE FRIEND THINKING TO END HER LIFE.
GOD BLESS ALL.
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By crazyseeker, March 19, 2010 @ 4:42 am
How very interesting to read about the BKs! In the early 80s I was looking for meditation courses, and after having given a talk at a conference, I was apaproached by a charming and urbane middle aged gentleman who was very attentive to me because he realised, (he smarmed) that I was a special person and one of Baba’s children. I thought this was quite an original come-on, so I agreed to have lunch with some of the senior BKs (much fuss made of me, delicious food offered to me, and invitations to various BK events flowed!
Yes I was flattered, and agreed to do the 7 day introductory course. I sat there in total disbelief, yet fascinated by how people can believe such stuff. As I was a philosopher by training, I investigated further, attendng some of their events (mostly boring and of no apparent signigficance. I soon came across some major power play in the organisation. I, and a group of others, were introduced to Dadi Janki. I was eager to meet her, and even dressed in white trousers and a shirt! She turned away from me instantly and made a fuss of two of my companions, ignoring me totally. That was when I realised how strongly you were ‘included’ or ‘excluded’.
I kept on attending our centre, mainly becasue I liked to meditate … sometimes I was hauled out of the meditation room to be lectured about gyan etc etc. I hid my boredom.
The final straw came when I retired from work, and went back to work part time. I had not told any senior sister – I had not realised that I had to. One day after morning puja I was asked to come up to the front, and told off (there were other BKs there) for not telling them that I had retired. Did I not realised that I could now spend more time doing baba’s work?
Somewhere in the preceeding months I had been persuaded to contribute £1000 to their new centre in Neasden.
I left surreptitiously; moved house and did not leave a forwarding address to anyone remotely connected with the BKs.
They are an interesting study in group pathology. Someone shoud do some research on them.
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By confused, April 20, 2010 @ 7:09 pm
I have been involved with BK for a few months, attending lectures which I found interesting and stimulating and also doing a practical meditation course which I have found very useful in coping with the stresses of every day life and have been extremely beneficial. A friend commented that BK sounded like some kind of cult,hence me logging on to your website to find out more.At the moment nothing untoward has come my way from BK and I would like to carry on with them for the time being. I would be grateful if you could let me know what warning signs I should look out for to show if it is becoming unhealthy for me.Thanks
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The Truth Reply:
April 24th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Dear Confused,
you have to realise that there is a big difference between the “sweetness and light” lectures that you are given for free to encult you, and the real teachings which will them follow which include stuff like, the unavoidable death of 6 billion human being to make way for a heaven on earth for 900,000 BKs only, all of time being only 5,000 years long with dinosaurs existing 2,500 years ago, and claims that the spirit guide who possessed an old lady in India called Gulzar is the god of all religions … and yet has come to destroy them all as only Brahma Kumarism is the one true religion.
If that is not enough to make you run, just ask them what they really teach in what used to be called “The 7 Day Course” and who “BapDada” is.
This spirit entity is who they are trying to hook your mind up with in their mediation and use your mind as a channel and instrument for it. Yes, it feel good to begin with, wonderful even, that then wears off by which time you have become a slave for them encouraged to devote 100% of your mind, body and wealth to them.
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By Siram, April 24, 2010 @ 6:11 pm
Very enlightehning. My wife somehow destroyed our family after she joined BK. She became a celibate at my expense and dragged my children against their will to attend so-called murli sessions and made to participate in discussions with adults who were really , truly elitest. How can a so-called university handle discusions mixing children and adults by claiming that their souls are “adult” anyway!!!!!!!!!More to come!!!!!!!!!!!
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The Truth Reply:
April 24th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
I am very sorry to hear this … sadly, you are one of many thousands who have suffered in the same way.
The trick of claiming that children are “adults” or reincarnated BKs is one they use worldwide.
You need to keep your children away from them or you will probably lose them. Many have.
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editor Reply:
May 7th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Hi Siram. This is a way of dealing with this. The BKs are very sensitive to disturbance. If you make your presence felt at the centre they will prevent your wife and children from coming. They have no stomach for confrontation. If you turn up at the centre in morning class or when your wife attends with your children they will stop them. The BKs see confrontation as a really bad reflection upon themselves. It is as simple as parking out the front of the centre and leaning on the horn, banging on the front door during class and generally being a (legal) nuisance. They will succumb fairly quickly usually. If I was fighting for control of my children they would have me knocking down the front door at every opportunity.
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By worried!, May 7, 2010 @ 7:44 am
Quite concerning to read this! My amazing, highly educated sister fell for the wrong guy and ended up with bipolar disorder! She got on the right medication through a family psychologist and started recovering when I, myself(!) mis-led by a ‘free yoga and meditation’ sign led my sister into one of the BK centres! Now she has been with them for 4 years (since when she has had 2 relapses as she believes her baba will manage her bipolar disorder for her and stops taking meds! – which is when the BK people are the last to care), is horrifyingly obese due to all their dietary restrictions (including not eating food cooked by anyone outside their group)leading to very unhealthy and irregular eating habits and preparing for the end of the world. We have tried to reason with her but she likes to preach, which is when I lose my patience! Reading about the guilt, etc even AFTER people leave the group makes me very worried! Even if I manage to get her out of it, I wonder if she will be any better off than she is now, if it comes with such mental baggage!
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editor Reply:
May 7th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
Worried, I recommend that you confront the person in charge of the centre with details about your sisters mental health issues. This website and our other efforts have made the BKs more aware of mental health issues in general. Also write / email Jayanti in London and the area coordinator and as many people as you can. I will forward your posting to those I know are sensitive to these matters. If you go to our “contact us” link you can email us the centre which your sister attends as that will help me deal with this with the best possible outcome.
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By worried!, May 7, 2010 @ 7:53 am
makes me wonder why no one flags them to Government authorities, if there is such strong evidence of tax evasion, etc.
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By Filthy Shudra, May 15, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
A few factual corrections needed in the editorial at the top of this page:
Ranjana was from a Gujerati family, but was actually from Zambia. Her family emigrated when things got tough in a few african countries where an outbreak of racial discrimination and violence against Asians was stirred up by politicians (who were merchants and generally more prosperous than the many africans).
She was involved with the Brahma Kumaris much longer than 7 years. From before 1980, maybe ’79? – to 1993 so 12 -13 years. Much of that was spent as the PA (personal assistant) to Dadi Janki.
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By Surprised, July 9, 2010 @ 1:26 pm
I was interested in meditation, so I tried searching youtube, tried to find books. Some guy insisted to have a teacher and led me to a meditation center. I signed in for a meditation class, and attended. The classes were some dogmas like point of light at the center of forehead, incarnation, god, cycle of time (5000 years), their baba Kripilan who dies in 1969 and their god spokesperson Dadi Gulzar. The least was mentioned of meditation which is an open eye meditation as they call it. I continued attending for no reason other than expecting something of importance would come. But nothing had come. In the meantime I was wondering about them how they afford giving free classes, I was suspicious about them and their motives. So I said I would google them. So I did, and have come across this site. Thank you very much, it’s important people are warned and given enough information about them.
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By Ramesh, October 1, 2010 @ 1:25 am
This web is just plain confrontation, causing confusion and sadness. It’s all about lack of deep understanding which can only come from deep meditation.
I, personally, do not like the maanmat that goes on, but the shrimat that is directed by GOD can never be compromised. Meditation is between you and GOD and no-one else. So only interested person will be interested in it. Keep away from unnecessary things. Concentrate on yourself and GOD. I, myself, and many other BKs do this and are happy. I have also done marriage 1981 after getting this spiritual knowledge in 1972 and i was attending this spiritual knowledge as well and we had an issue/girl child in 1992. Though real benefits in terms of social psychological and official matters started coming to me only after i started leading a complete celibate/brahmcharya life. yes now i am leading a pure lotus like celibate life. The benefits are immense in my personal, social and official life. I cannot explain them in words.
You can join any other organisation and trust me, you will experience a tremendous negativity.
My dear sweet loveliest brother, there is nothing like that which you are saying as lack of duty of care. They (like Dadi Janki and Sister Jayanti and dadi Hirdyamohini and lakhs of other in India and abroad are giving Sakash to all the (more than 600 billions of) souls(including you, me, exiting bks).
Dear brother, Sakash works and is working as duty of care and critical care.Sakash is giving vibrations in the form of spherical spectacular diffused rings of of peace, love, care,power.positivity,purity,contentment etc to all.
God bless you.
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because.parmeshwar Reply:
October 10th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Dear Brother Ramesh,
Just answer me one question, why the ocean of truth and father of all souls not able to tell the exact number of his children. You only wrote (more than 600 billions) this no. keep on changing with time…
Can a real father will not remember the no. of his children…
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because.parmeshwar Reply:
October 10th, 2010 at 12:35 am
One more thing… you said that you have been married after following gyan from 1972 to 1981… then according to BKWSU you are the weekest soul and get very low status in the Golden age… Perhaps cremators, or servants….
Do you think think that a father can say this to their children…?
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dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 25th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
God the Benevolent Father of all souls has unlimited love for all His children; this means for every soul no matter their belief or state. But the law of karma operates and God has to also take the form of the Judge at the end of each cycle. Every soul living in the golden age has full happiness, peace, prosperity; a lot better to be a servant in the golden age and have a long period of being happy, than to come later in the cycle and experience less happiness. Shiv Baba has also said though that those who have given up celibacy and then take it up again, can put in extra effort and make up ground. So, again, it depends on the effort you make; this will determine when you enter each cycle and at what level. it just depends on you. Sometimes I see souls who have left to marry, return with their spouse to introduce them to Baba, on the spouse’s request. And murli classes are given at the centres and gita pathshalas for non-celibate people. This has been available throughout India and overseas from establishment.
filthy shudra Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
You say “But the law of karma operates and God has to also take the form of the Judge at the end of each cycle” – this is self contradiction. If law of karma operates as you believe, why does a God need to take the form of judge?
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 2nd, 2011 at 1:45 pm
This is not contradiction. The judge adjudicates. Karma is one mechanism in place that gives the punishment determined by the Judge. At the end of the cycle, God the Father takes the form of the Judge and shows each one the mistakes they have made and what punishment they will receive.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 24th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
If Shiv Baba told you the exact number of souls, you would be able to work out, roughly, the date of the end of the iron age, i.e., the time you will leave your last iron-aged body for this cycle. See the real test of karma is to be good, peaceful, loving etc to others all the time not just when you think you’re about to die. It’s the real test isn’t it? Only God would test you like that!! good luck.
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filthy shudra Reply:
August 2nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Trouble is “God” has announced the number of souls, sHe has thereby implied roughly the date of the end of “your last iron-aged body” but been disproven by facts.
The early murlis spoke of 5 billion souls, then it became 6 billion, and now when the world population is 6.something it gets revised again . Notice the heading “revised murli” – If it is an omniscient God, one quality the BKs ascribe to their minimalist deity, then why does sHe get it so wrong? Why does he need such regular revision and correction?
butiam Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Murlis that were spoken through the medium Brahma Baba for the last 5 years before Brahma baba left the body are the “revised murlis”. As these contain a good representation of the basic knowledge, they are simply sent out and studied continuously. However, the dates and numbers in the original murlis are changed to reflect the numbers at the time the revised murli is sent out. Someone who has been a bk for a number of years would know this. We continue to study these murlis . The only newly spoken murlis are the avyakt murlis, which, of course, you know all about.
filthy shudra Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
As someone who was responsible for a short time for printing off and sending out the weekly set of murlis, I can tell you it is more than that which gets revised.
… and if the numbers are revised, why? Was God wrong?
filthy shudra Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
why should the numbers be revised? Are the editors concerned to show that ”god” doesn’t know how many ”children” sHe has ?
It is a crucial point because the previous writer noted, according to gyan revealed by highest on high authority (higher than government census) destruction has to take place when all souls have incarnated and if highest on high authority god father shiva says there are 5 billion souls etc…. do you get it?
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 5th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Me again. You are fishing for info as you don’t have the fall picture. That’s ok. Yes other info has been withheld. You don’t receive current or recent murlis. But Baba has said that all souls are now here. The soul world is empty. Though all souls are not yet in their physical bodies. He has not told us if all souls will return to the physical body before returning home. Baba still will not give the date that this cycle will end. But Baba has put up the “Too Late” board, which He has mentioned for some years. Perhaps you have heard of this. He told us at the 2nd meeting in March (2011) that it is now too late. And, to help you further, in one sakar murli not too long back the world pop was given as 9 billion. This falls into line with the world pop clock and scientific, and also prophetic, predictions. In fact a lot of info about this final period has been released in the last 2 or 3 years in he murlis. Baba wants us to be ready and to help souls.
filthy shudra Reply:
August 5th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
Dear twbtat
You yourself are saying that sakar murlis are being changed, that they are now saying 9 billion. Have you no concern for authenticity of source documents? Sakar murlis all spoke of a world population of 5 billion. Destruction was ready to happen in 1976 according to BKs and when it didn’t, the live avyakt murlis, – where I attended – BD saying it wasn’t because all souls hadn’t incarnated, or that the opposing sides in the forthcoming world destruction were not ready, they were. It was because the BKs themselves were not yet ready and needed a little more time. The call bapdada to make it the year for full effort for completion. 1979 that was my dear. It is now 32 years later and another billion+ people have appeared . Maybe there smore than one soul world? Maybe souls split in two like amoeba? All too implausible – just edit the damn murlis and thats easy.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 7th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Baba has told us that He will never tell us the final date. This is because we have to be ready before then. Anyway, any of us can leave the present body at any time. If so, we go to another body, but the memories from this present birth do not go with us. We have to start all over again. So, do whatever you want to do now. I’ve said all I want to say. I will leave you all in peace now. Signing off and signing out.
Brahma Kumaris Split Families Reply:
July 10th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
And what happened to your wife and child Ramesh? Do you feel for them?
The way you say “done marriage” and “had an issue” sounds to be as if you have problems with sexual and emotional intimacy.
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editor Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 2:24 am
Utterly brainwashed. The BKs have NO concept of duty of care. You wouldn’t be dumb enough to suggest that sending out good vibrations in meditation is meeting duty of care?
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By peacebewithu, October 11, 2010 @ 4:54 am
Hi All,
My sole view is that if any organisation is doing good to someone’s life why are people getting biased.No one forces you into believing something,its your personal choice.If you have so much negativity dont spread it out to the world.
There is so much of anger and ill feeling in this site.come out of itand love urself and the world too.Im neither a believer nor againts bk…All I think is let there be peace all around rather than vice against each other.
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By filthy shudra, October 11, 2010 @ 4:29 pm
so, my dear peacebewithu
What do you think about a religious organisation that teaches its followers, including children, that sex is evil, that the world will end in a few years, that only they are pure enough to inherit the post-apocalyptic kingdom, that preaches disdain to any of its own who decide to have a loving sexual relationship with anyone else, that teaches that the only thoughts worth having or actions worth doing are those prescribed in their guru’s words, and any individual creative thoughts that are different are considered arrogant “manmat”…
I could go on. Beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing
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By the worst soul, October 24, 2010 @ 8:43 am
Hey Guys,
Don´t worry, enjoy wine and women and you will be again enjoying it in ´kalyug´, so its all win situation for us!
Cheers
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Joel Reply:
October 24th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
And your plan is?
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the worst soul Reply:
October 25th, 2010 at 3:58 am
exactly what I said! Bro
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By kingss, May 12, 2011 @ 11:43 am
This is a fake spiritual organisation. they does not know any thing about spirituality. They hijacked the knowledge from the Gita and yet claims that Gita is their own some 5000 years back.it is a bunch of people who try to potrate themselves as the saviours of the world and the highest people of this world. all cheaters. dont join this cult. it is a waste of time. energy and of course your hard earned money. please dont belive these people. dont join this cult
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filthy shudra Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Neither Gita nor the BK interpretation of it, nor the Bible nor Koran nor Suttas makes a person more spiritual than they are.
Sincerity, goodwill and virtues are human traits, practice is a personal task.
To identify yourself by a religion ( I am a christian, I am a BK, I am a Vaishnav etc) means you tie your humanity to a boundary (The word religion means “bound”).
It is people that are spiritual, not religions. The religion is a framework to work within, a cloak to wear. BKs say body is like a costume. I say body is less of a costume and far more intrinsically and personally yours than the cloak of ” I am a BK”.
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Angel Reply:
July 23rd, 2011 at 10:59 am
I agree with you that virtues are human traits and is part of our personal development. We can share our spiritual love and give good wishes to everyone.
I have been a student at the BK for about 4 years now, while living a ‘normal life’(working, studying academically and going to BK centre). I am engaged though. And I am being treated as a weird unwelcome freak unless I make my loving man just a companion. And they do not guarantee that he’ll be my companion in Golden Age. So, as per their beliefs, God doesnot preserve the relationship you have with your companion in Golden Age.
So, what are we all making effort for? Shiva had Parvati..ram had Sita (Deities reincarnating with their soulmate). But unfortunately, BKs you will have many companions even though you are making effort to stay pure, and I am sure many of you BKs do not care about it. Because those BK’s love for someone is temporary.
So those non BKs who are making effort (those who respect their partner and maintain a loving and faithful relationship with their husband/partner) are worth nothing in the Golden Age.. because according to BKs teachings, Non-BKs (even with virtues) would not be in heaven.
Can you treat someone who is faithful and lobing to his/her wife/husband as impure?
None of the BK teachers can answer me correctly on that, because this is ‘sex lust’! So what about you who will enjoy ‘pure’ marriage with your multiple companions during the 2500 years in heaven?
And what about those children who will be born ‘naturally’ from meditation in Golden age? Will you not care about them? Because BKs are asked to stay in relationship with only God. So you won’t have practice in caring and would not be a caring person in Golden age?
If a ‘PURE’ BK’s child, husband/wife or parent were to commit suicide, then the BK will not care I guess (and they talk about love!) ‘Strong’ BKs can see their loved ones die, go to ‘hell’ and smile.
Well, all this to say.. wake up everyone. God is within us when we call upon him with good wishes and love. Stopping to be part of BK is not the end of life, you can be a person with virtues, have the love of God and enjoy being with your family. You have the right to look for your soulmate and build on a relationship of love and respect with the blessings of God.
You personally(Not BK as an organisation) have the power to make things go well, be happy and always stay connected to God.
with love,
Angel
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dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 24th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
sex is not love. Love is love. I have seen many married couples, celibate, with very happy marriages. They have true marriages. They love each other. Their relationship is not dependent on sex.There are thousands of such bk marriages in India today and quite a few outside India as well. I personally know a number of such couples, both indian and western. They are happy. These couples will definitely be together in the golden age. I recall Shiv Baba noting this in a murli.
Angel Reply:
July 25th, 2011 at 8:09 am
@dontwanttobeatarget Of course, sex is not love and I have not said it is.
That is nice if you’ve seen celibate couples who love each other. This shows some flexibility in some centres. It is not the case in every centre though. What have been explained to me is quite different. So do you think the head of a centre can lie, because it is the head of BK centre who explained to me how unmarried celibate are more powerful.
It would not be right to say that to a celibate couple though, and I do not think they will tell a happy loving celibate couple that they would not have the highest inheritance in golden age. But they will tell that to someone who is not married, so that she/he remains unmarried.
Now, you say that these couples will be together in the golden age. And a head of centre tells me that is very unlikely. The teacher says we shouldnot care about that, but on our own individual effort, personal seva(service),service to the world by spreading the knowledge and aim for high inheritance.
What has to be noted is that different persons are told different things, so as to keep/increase the number of followers.
Examples of what is said to followers are as below:
1. An unmarried person- You have the more ‘chance’ to claim the high inheritance and maintain purity. The married couples are unhappy unless celibate, but there is no guarantee. So you are very lucky to be unmarried and be able to remain as pure as dadi gulzar.That is why God chose her.
2. Married couple- Maintain celibacy and you will be happy. Claim high inheritance in golden age. Destroy bondage and stay in remembrance. Remember the Father only.
3. Married couple (one BK, one non-BK)- To be able to attend our classes, you need to share the jewel of knowledge to your partner. Maintain purity. You are free to choose. (choose from being on the ‘side of God’ or doomed because you will lose your inheritance)
These are a few examples. Everyone will want to be on the ‘side of God’. So there comes the feeling of guilt..to depart from the ‘path of God’.
But as I said before, the virtues is within a person…whether he/she is a BK, non BK or Ex BK. We all are children of God, we all have the right to be connected to God.
To come to your point again, when you are married and in love with each other, Love is Love, whether one is BK, non BK or Ex BK.
No organisation is doing good by increasing the chance of divorce/suicide when imposing their rules for the couple to have a ‘chance’ to be on the ‘side of God’/to be in heaven.
With love,
Angel
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 25th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
While you are having sex you would be conscious of the other soul’s body, and the feelings of yours. God does not have a physical body. To connect with God you need to be on the same level. He is not ever body conscious. It’s like making a phone call. If you can’t reach the line, His line, you won’t get the connection, or the response you are hoping for. The line or level is letting the awareness of the body go; to be conscious only of your self, Swa, the soul. You are a soul, not a body. This is the reason Shiv Baba tells us to let the awareness of the body go, be soul conscious; then you will be able to have a connection with Him, the Supreme Soul, God, a direct connection. You have to be on the same wavelength or you can’t connect. There’s a murli where Baba says it’s the effort each one makes which determines if you will be together in the golden age, so if you make similar effort, you can be together there. I’ll search back; see if I can find it and share it here.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 25th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
The power of the soul is determined by the amount of effort each soul makes; how much they remember the Supreme Father of all souls with deep love in the incorporeal form. If a pure kumari does not do this, she will not be powerful. For a person who has been married(not celibate) and with family responsibilities, to become celibate, to see the soul of these physical relationships and of all other souls as a brother soul, equal to them; to have love equally for all souls; to be determined to serve all souls as an instrument of the Supreme Incorporeal One, so that all souls have the opportunity to create their fortune whatever that may be; this soul can become very powerful, more than a kumari. Each soul will receive happiness and peace; it only depends on what each one does. God has come now to set the record straight. All bk teachers are still struggling, working through their own karma and understanding. If they were perfect, they would not be there in the body. Read and study the murli, God’s words, first and foremost. You are making the bk teacher into a god. God is God.
Angel Reply:
July 26th, 2011 at 7:58 am
“The power of the soul is determined by the amount of effort each soul makes; how much they remember the Supreme Father of all souls with deep love in the incorporeal form. If a pure kumari does not do this, she will not be powerful. For a person who has been married(not celibate) and with family responsibilities, to become celibate, to see the soul of these physical relationships and of all other souls as a brother soul, equal to them; to have love equally for all souls; to be determined to serve all souls as an instrument of the Supreme Incorporeal One, so that all souls have the opportunity to create their fortune whatever that may be; this soul can become very powerful, more than a kumari.” This is a very nice thought. And this shows your individual view of how someone who looks at others as a soul, give them good wishes, spread happiness around..I support this view because I look at myself and others as soul, as a big family of God (BKs, non BKs, ex BKs). We are from the same tree, we must love each other.
When someone meditates or stay in remembrance of God, he/she feels her soul and the deep connection he/she has with the supreme soul. Each of us would have a story to tell..of how the supreme soul presence is felt, the link, the ‘incorporeal conversation’.
The link is always here because we have left our body so many times during the cycle. We already know the feeling deep inside, the link remains. We all know the soul world, because we have been there again and again. The way to get close to someone is to care and love him/her, to be sweet to him/her, to look upon him/her in every situation, that someone will protect you, guide you. That someone is God and that is how we maintain the link. To look at everyone with love and care, and not to let him/her down.
The golden age couples, I know they will remain together for many lifetimes. This is the blessing of God. And those couples who try to maintain love, loyalty and respect in every ages shall reap good fortune. BKWSU is not God. God is God, you are right.
Meditate on God with our own soul, our own mind, our own experience of the soul world, and we find God. And the link is here. Each of us, with our little contribution, make something big, a world of peace and love. Why fight on who is more powerful. We are now on earth, with a body, we should take care of it, love it with humility because without it we would not be walking, talking, smiling, working, helping,living..and care for others, our family and everyone else. Be happy and do not have ill feelings about anyone.
With love,
Angel
P.S @dontwanttobeatarget, we both have the love of God, something in common (BK or not)
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 28th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
I’m a bk, but I don’t belong to a religion. I’m a bk because my eternal Father found me. He gave me/gives me true love. He is my true Friend. He is my Companion. Yes this body is mine. I am the soul; the life in this body. When I, the soul, leave this body, the body will die. I make this body work. I lift my arm. I move my legs. I, the soul, do everything with the instrument of the physical body. But I am a spiritual being. You are too; all human beings are, whether they know it or not.
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editor Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 2:15 am
yada yada yada. Have you ever had an original idea? You just spew the same drivel that every other BK does – do you honestly imagine that we haven’t heard all this repetitious, same same, unoriginal stuff before?
PS you do belong to a religion!! Read the murli!
By dontwanttobeatarget, July 28, 2011 @ 7:23 pm
In many murlis Shiv Baba says that there is no destruction of the world. It is simply the point of time when all souls have settled all their outstanding karmic accounts. They can then return, of course without the physical and subtle bodies, to reside with God the Father of all souls in the soul world. It is rather destruction of all negativity, sorrow, pain. He says this physical world will exist eternally, as will each soul. There is no dooms day message. The message is to settle your karmic account the easy way rather than through pain and sorrow. The easy way is to remember our eternal Father with love, not just on Sundays, but as much as you love Him. That’s the test. He’ll be with you, protect you and ease your pain while He is with you. But not while you keep Him out of your life/heart. I recall one young woman describing her experience when a bushfire went through their township. She and her close neighbours stayed in their homes. When the fire was close, she talked to God simply from the heart and said she leaves herself in His care. She trusted Him completely. She crouched down in the middle of the house on the floor and remained conscious of God. She survived and her house was untouched. But each of the houses surrounding hers, was burnt to ashes and the residents all burnt to death. It’s a simple example from real life. But I have heard similar stories told from people who have survived some of the recent catastrophes passing through the USA. What I’m saying is remember your Father with love, and you will experience His love for you. You will be happy and at peace. And protected.
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filthy shudra Reply:
July 29th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
Then all the earthquakes, drownings,famines, plagues, diseases, haemorrhages, decapitations, dismemberments, radiation sickness and whatever other means are used – they should all be a barrel of laughs, good fun and pleasure for all, by what you say. if you “dontwanttobeatarget” then don’t be so facile.
..and your example of the fire survivor is very selective. that kind of fortune occurs all the time in fires, one house and family burn, another doesn’t, and guess what? even people who do never “remember their Father with love” survive.
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dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
No suffering is a barrel of laughs. They are suffering a lot of pain through the terrible events we see. In that fire, this woman was the only survivor of that township. Two hundred people perished that day in the bush fires and thousands of homes were destroyed throughout the whole region. Many townships were devastated. You don’t seem to believe in the law of karma. You may think that if you do wrong you will get off scott free. Take a look around. Even mass murderers and army leaders who has perpetrated genocide are being brought to justice. Unheard of eh? But it’s happening now.
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filthy shudra Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Such people are brought to justice through legal structures and years of hard work by committed individuals and organisations.
The Cambodian genocides saw 2 or 3 million people killed. Only one person has been brought to trial and convicted. Were the perpetrators merely paying back what had been done to them? Did millions do harm to hundreds? Did those who get away with it do so because of good karma?
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 pm
No one gets away with anything. And the cycle is fast drawing to a close. So time is short. There are many human beings with much karma to settle. Therefore an instrument, or instruments will be employed to carry out karmic suffering for large numbers at a time. Death is one way to settle some karma. So there will be an increase in death, and suffering, to complete settlement on time. The instruments, e.g. Hitler and the SS, Stalin and his Siberian army, Pol Pot and his henchmen, etc, will experience many quick, tortuous lives before the end, I expect.
filthy shudra Reply:
August 2nd, 2011 at 5:16 pm
Oh, ok. I can now accept such atrocities as part of the balance of nature. Very reassuring thanks. Maybe we do not need police forces, courts and legislatures?
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Law enforcement is needed now. I don’t accept any suffering. Our Beautiful Father has come to end all suffering. It is human beings who are carrying out these atrocities; human beings who have become worse than animals. And it is these human beings who will receive all they deserve in return. Law enforcement officers uphold the law of the land. They would not dispense such retribution. Law enforcers may catch a Melosovich, and he commits suicide before they can hang him. They may hang Sadam. But they are the figureheads. They didn’t torture and kill all of those people. Many did this. And they all will be punished.
filthy shudra Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
You are inconsistent in your argument.
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
August 5th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
How so? Please elaborate
dontwanttobeatarget Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
There is a bk centre in the middle of Christchurch. The town centre has been largely destroyed in the recent and continuous earthquakes. But no damage to the bk centre. I was at the Wilton retreat centre (Aust) when a bushfire came through the area. The fire went right around the perimeter fence but did not enter the property. Many local homes were destroyed. The same thing happened at the Leura retreat centre, sitting in the middle of bushland. The fire went around the perimeter but did not enter. Many thousands of hectares of bush and homes were wiped out. I’ve worked in an office in the centre of Sydney and watched a bushfire go through many homes and bush just across the main road. But the fire didn’t cross the road. I’ve driven through a bushfire. Where people have tried to outrun a bushfire in Adelaide a year or so back, and they were burnt to death before they could even reach the car. Instant karma’s gonna get you. That’s what is happening now around the world. Each is receiving the return of their own karma (actions) from this birth and probably many other births. If their account is positive, they are not suffering so much. If it is negative, they are getting hit a lot now. But, like in the Sri Lankan tsunami, so many were washed away, but no bk centre was damaged. The bks fed and housed many afterwards though. I’ve got a lot of examples from my own experience too. I could fill these pages with examples. The world population is very big. Karma may be slow but it is sure and inescapable. If it’s due it will come at the accurate time. I like to remember my eternal Father, and I have a lot of love for Him. If my karmic account is being melted away with this fire of love, it’s a bonus.
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filthy shudra Reply:
July 30th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Your argument is disingenuous. It ignores all other survivors in such situations (in Christchurch, did only BK survive? No. In bushfires, did only BKs have miraculous escapes, no…. and so on)
Your need to explain complex events with “must be good/bad karma from a past life” is too cute and too neat by half – and entirely self-serving (as is the tradition among brahmins, whether BK or hindu, to maintain their elite position in the social system, even if only in their own minds.)
Your argument also ignores the many BKs who have died from unnatural causes – e.g. deaths brought on by long term lack of sleep or malnourishment, leading to fatigue hence illness, disease or car accidents. You probably are not aware of any, or of the many other suicides that have taken place, because these are not things to be broadcast.
As for “believing” in the “Law of karma” – a Law can only be called a Law when, despite any tests and trials to disprove it, it still holds true. The Law of karma as you, BKs and vedantists state it, cannot be tested as there is no way to do that. At best it is a theory or working hypothesis, with no more likelihood of being true or even of being tested than a muslim’s “Inshallah.”
By dontwanttobeatarget, August 4, 2011 @ 1:54 pm
The law of karma is being tested and is operating every moment for every soul, whether you know it or have given your permission for it. How can physical means prove a spiritual law? They are in separate realms. You don’t believe it. But that doesn’t stop it operating. It just means you are not aware of why negative things happen to you. You do not accept that your own actions cause things to happen as a result. Wow maybe you think you are God. Maybe you think you can do anything and will never be caught, tried and hung. Good luck.
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By filthy shudra, August 5, 2011 @ 6:39 pm
Dear dwtbat,
You just said what i said – your concept of karma – as you state it “they are in separate realms”. You can neither prove nor disprove it – you can only believe it and view the world according to it. First step to wisdom is to accept that one’s view of the world, one’s beliefs, are only that, a view and a belief – they are not the same as the actual reality of the world itself. We should always struggle to bring our perceptions closer to actual reality if we are concerned with truth.
Live according to karma philosophy as you understand it if thats what you need for structure. Just think it through….
I heard the BKs were holding meditation sessions to send “powerful” thoughts to the famine victims in Somalia. I wonder – were they also collecting money and sending donations there? What good is a thought when someone is starving to death? They need food, not good wishes. How many of these powerful yogis, who believe their thoughts can change the world, are overweight but still went home and tucked in to a nice meal, self-satisfied in their “avyakt service”. Maybe they should send more good thoughts and less food toward themselves, and do the opposite for the starving.
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editor Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 2:30 am
“Maybe they should send more good thoughts and less food toward themselves, and do the opposite for the starving.”
Absolutely!!!
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By dontwanttobeatarget, August 7, 2011 @ 2:13 pm
You haven’t sent this email to me. You want the world to know of your response, but not me. What are you afraid of? Me, or the truth getting out there? Wait and watch like everyone else and you’ll run out of time. I wasn’t going to send anymore anyway. If you hadn’t played this little trick, you wouldn’t have heard from me again. So, ok someone is feeding you information of what programs are running. Are you hacking the emails, or is the mi5 doing it on your behalf? Or are you running this webpage to provide info for their files? And/or to stop people leaving the c of e, and other religions, in droves. Very few are becoming bks. Why don’t you work on stopping them leaving, rather than trying to destroy the bkwsu, which does fulfill their needs. Why don’t you stop looking down on your church members in a condescending way. Why don’t you stop trying to control them. Why don’t you have love for them instead. Then they will stay. Don’t blame us that you don’t provide your parishioners with what they want.
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editor Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 3:03 am
What are you talking about?? Wait, who cares?
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By confusa, September 9, 2011 @ 11:27 am
Só queria publicar a minha história e saber se alguém me pode ajudar…. sou Portuguesa e já pertenci há BK mas deixei de ir, porque achei que o se diz não é o que fazem. Vi pessoas a pedirem ajuda e nunca ninguém da BK ajudou, fosse com amor, carinho ou compreenção… nem deixam as pesooas falarem dos seus problemas. Para mim acabou, não tem lógica ir contra ao que sempre pensei do que era justo ou do que se deveria de fazer para ajudar o próximo. Só gostava que o meu marido sai-se de lé também e que entende-se que para ajudar os outros não precisa de lá estar e que a vida dele não mudou pra melhor….. continua com os mesmos problemas que tinha, mas acha sempre que tudo muda….. nada a fezer, desde que tenho lido post de ex-bk que a minha perspectiva do assunto mudou e compreendi que não sou só eu que acha que tudo aquilo é errado e funciona mal. De alguém que acha que se realmente fosse tudo como dizem não havia fome, guerra, doenças. E não digam que é testes ou karma, ´porque se fosse muitas pessoas não sofriam uma vida inteira, como pessoas que conheço.
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By confused, September 9, 2011 @ 11:30 am
Just wanted to publish my story and wonder if anyone can help me …. I am Portuguese and has belonged for BK but left to go, because I thought that is said is not what they do. I have seen people ask for help and nobody helped the BK, it was with love, affection and comprehension … or leave the pesooas speak of their problems. Just for me, has no point to go against what I always thought of what was fair or what it should do to help others. Just like my husband is out also reads and understands that to help others do not need to be there and that his life has not changed for the better ….. continues with the same problems he had, but always think that everything changes ….. Fezer anything, from what I’ve read post of ex-bk that my perspective changed the subject and realized that not just me who thinks everything is wrong and evil works. From someone who thinks it was really all they say there was no famine, war, disease. And do not say they are testing karma or, ‘because if many people did not suffer a lifetime, as people I know.
I’m sorry but my English is very bad
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By vinny, March 15, 2012 @ 6:25 pm
I can say one thing this site is useless with a bunch of jokers who think that the organisation will take care of those (so-called duty of care) who are leaving the organisation. guys have a sensible mind and think that in this world..is there any organisation like this ‘which will care about the persons who are leaving’………have expectations (that’s good) but don’t have expectations over the board………..
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